owner's side? no? public comment? >> there is no public comment on that item. >> move to uphold the order of abatement and hold it for 30 days and assess costs. >> thank you. >> just a moment, i'm sorry. [pause] >> if there is a motion and a second, is there any public comment? seeing none, do a roll call vote. president clench? >> yes. >> commissioner lee? >> yes. >> commissioner mar? >> yes. >> commissioner mccarthy?

>> yes. >> commissioner mccray? >> yes. >> and commissioner walker? >> yes. >> that motion carries unanimously. item f, rehearing request, case no. 6 757, 130 bueler street, [speaker not understood], san francisco, california. [speaker not understood] 67 57 previously addressed by the abatement appeals board on june 20th, 2012. >> again, this is 130, 132 bueler street. it came up and it was already heard one time. there was a granting of the order of abatement, so forth. the property owner was given a time frame to complete the work. the property owner has now

requested to rehear the abatement appeals again, but in the meantime has requested a delay due to the holidays, requested a delay for this hearing due to the holidays. it was put in writing and it was approved already. by mr. sweeney. >> commissioner mar? >> did she move? >> getting any permits or apply for any permits or anything? >> she has not applied for any permits. >> i have a question for counsel. does the rehearing request stay our action? >> i believe it does. >> and there is a deadline for rehearing? for requesting a rehearing? >> yes, but i can't tell you what it is right off the top of my head. i think she complied -- my recollection is she complied with the time frame for

requesting a rehearing. >> and now she's continuing it? >> my understanding is on september seventh, requested a continuance based on the fact that because of the high holy days. >> so, she knew when she scheduled it when it was going to be or no? my concern is that this is a delaying tactic and i wonder -- i guess we have to allow for a continuance request. but my concern is what it does to implementing our decision. so, if it stays our decision, i guess, do we have to grant a continuance? * 7th >> no. however, given the building department has agreed to it --

>> okay. >> and given the reasons. >> okay. >> you can do what you want, but it might be problematic. i understand where you're coming from, but, yeah. >> before we even ask that, do we know, does she lift the request -- the reason for her asking for a rehearing or should that be discussed? * list >> this is for continuance. is there a reason why she's asking for a rehearing, or do we have to discuss that when we continue the matter? >> basically in terms of her grounds for rehearing, is that what you're -- so, we have -- i think you all have in your packet, it's like third or

fourth page to the back. it says to suspend -- her state the reasons why. suspend order of abatement and waive all fees if no hazard exists or at least until tenant vacates. that is the sum total of her reasons for requesting rehearing. >> i don't see any grounds for opening the repealed item. so, i would tend to say no to a continuance as well. but i'll defer to the rest of the commissioners if you feel we should as a courtesy continue the matter for the appellant, we could. >> so, let me ask a question about it. we made a decision with the time frame. if indeed when we do hear the rehearing, do we shift back to the original time frame, or

does it -- i think it was six months of the date of the hearing or something like that. >> i'm not sure. i'll have to look into that. i can't tell you that off the top of my head. but i know that what's before you right now is not the rehearing. it's a request for rehearing. so, we're kind of a couple of steps away, unfortunately, because you'd have to decide to grant rehearing and my understanding is that then wouldn't be instantaneous. it would be set for rehearing. >> okay. why don't we do this. we'll grant one continuance. >> for 30 days. >> let's do one. >> and i would like to do it with the understanding that the clock started when we had the original hearing. if that's legal. >> i'll have to look into it. >> okay. i make a move we continue it for 30 days. >> is there a second? >> second.

>> is there any public comment? seeing none, are all in favor to grant the continuance for 30 days? >> aye. >> any opposed? continuance is granted. >> thank you. >> item g, general public comment. is there any general public comment on items that are not on the abatement appeals agenda? abatement appeals. is this for abatement appeals, though? okay, thank you. seeing none, item h, adjournment. is there a motion to adjourn? >> move to adjourn. >> second. >> second. >> i don't see any public comment. we are now adjourned at 9:50

a.m. and we'll have a brief recess to set up for the building inspection commission. [adjourned] >> good morning. today is wednesday, september 19, 2012. this is the meeting, regular meeting of the building inspection commission. i would like to remind everyone to please turnoff all electronic devices. the first item on the agenda is roll call. president mccarthy? >> here. >> vice president mar? >> here. >> commissioner clench? >> here. >> commissioner lee? >> here. >> commissioner mccray? >> present. >> commissioner walker? >> here. >> commissioner melgar is excused. and we have a quorum. and the next item is number 2,

president's announcements. >> madam secretary, if i may, i just want to do some housekeeping here. i'd like to, if it's no objections, to move items 2 and 3 down to after 9:00 there because we have a full calendar. we'll go straight to item 4, please. if there's no objection, i'd like to do that. >> okay. commissioners are okay with that? >> yeah. >> okay. >> call item 4. >> item 4, item 4, discussion regarding disability access including training and certification for additional certified access specialist inspectors. >> good morning, commissioners. my name is tom [speaker not understood]. i'm a building inspector. i'm recently a cat certified, recently passed the cat certification. i came to speak to the commission about any questions you have about the cat

certification and what the department is doing. presently there are two cat certified inspectors at staff at the department of building inspection. that exceeds the minimum number of one that was required by the state law that created cats, that was -- that came in effect on july of this year. in the future, cat certification of a sufficient number needs to be on staff by 2015. presently there's training that's going on for accessibility at the cal bowl

that's upcoming in october that staff can take that will help them -- so they can take for disabled access for both housing and for the 2010 a-d-a. so, that's upcoming in october. so, if you have any questions about it, that's kind of the -- where we are right now with it. >> so, some -- you probably heard about this, but there has been some of the lawsuits for small businesses for disability access. so, i think one of the questions that came up was that if they get a cat inspection, [speaker not understood],

somebody does get the inspection, somebody has a plan and they bring it in to the better department of building inspection to make changes in their place of business, is it your office that will sign off on the plan, look at the plan to see if it's -- they're on the right track, things like that? i think the concern with some of the small businesses that have come up is there isn't a government entity that will sign off on their plans. so, they feel like they're still kind of moving targets for some of the lawsuits. do you know how that -- >> well, yes. the small business, there's certified cats inspectors. if anyone goes to -- we would review any building permit that a person would come into the building department for any building permit and one that's

associated with accessibility would be processed like any other permit. now, if there comes a particular situation where it's somewhat unusual, okay, many times the plan check staff will come to myself or the other person that's cat certified and/or their supervisors and people that -- you know, everybody has their strengths and weaknesses when it comes to plan checking. so, they would come and ask us our opinion on whether it's approvable and whether it met the code. whatever they're proposed in. okay. so, any building permit that comes in would be processed like -- there isn't a special, oh, you know, you go directly to cats if it had accessibility to it because every commercial permit has accessibility to it. we would be overwhelmed.

there's just two of us to do every single one. but if there was some particular unusual case, then, you know, staff would definitely ask their supervisors or people who have particular knowledge in accessibility to look at it. but we wouldn't go specifically, you know, every single one wouldn't go specifically to the cats. >> just one question to commissioner walker then i'll get to you. >> so, thank you for coming and talking to us about this. we've heard a lot about this in the last few months. so, when we talk about requiring a sufficient number of inspectors to be trained and then you talked about [speaker not understood], do you know how many of our folks are signed up to be certified in the cal bo training and what is the number we've determined? >> the cal bo training is something that happens every year. >> right. >> the building inspectors have

to have certain building certifications in the building sector, they have to have the continuing education credits. so, that's what the cal bo, that's what's upcoming in october. and they have a menu of courses that you can take and two of them specifically go to accessibility. >> two of the training -- >> two of the training. now, i don't know exactly what percentage of the staff has taken those. >> okay. but has there been determined a number for us of what is sufficient according to the rules? >> that hasn't been determined. >> okay. maybe we should just so that we get them trained. >> acting director? >> okay. to commissioner mar's question regarding how to certify those permits, usually when they come in for, you know, only disabled access is what we call barrier removal.

a permit alone only deals with disability only. also i want to let you know the secretary of the disabled access appeal board, also, we don't do the, you know, for the lawsuit itself. usually once they have a consultant to inspect the site, they will give a [speaker not understood] what they need to do and award the lawsuit, okay, and then they can come in for some modification or future modification in a plan to see how they're going to achieve those barriers, you know. that's what we do. in cal bo training, it's only the basic idea how to deal with the upcoming changes and so forth.

because training is very expensive, i think it's three days for training. * extensive the passing rate is roughly 40%, engineering exam, you know, take long time to get them through. but our intention is only doing a advisory role. don't want to go into all have -- individual business to order inspection, but we will try and give them the training in the future how to deal with it. of course, we would like to as much pass inspectors [speaker not understood] department. even we have a l.a. department to come to our department to see how we operate. i think they told us they have still [speaker not understood] in their certification for cat inspector. president also attend a

meeting, too, you know. we are actually ahead of lots of people in the state. >> yeah, to kind of hitch hike off that, which was surprising to me, i thought we would have been, but l.a., they were very clear on this. i think they don't have because they have accessible issue problems. i don't think they have them to the magnitude we have in this town. you know how complex they are. to me the key is one of the big kind of programs i think that i want to see coming out of all this is the educational aspect of it and i notice that -- i think we're all, commissioner mar feels very strongly about this, too. how we get the word, are we doing these kind of outreach to the communities, how we're doing it and sue on. -- so on. and are people showing up and are we educating them on the issues. that's the big thing for us. if we were to do anything constructive over the next year is to kind of accomplish that.

the other aspect of it is if i am -- the people who are traditionally caught up on this, the staff, people who have necessarily been around the department a lot and don't know how to get down to the counters, where to go and so on. do we have kind of a system in place that kind of channels those type of people to the likes of you to the right inspectors rather than going down there, being pushed around the place, don't know where they're going, but no thought of -- just the fact -- one of the ideas i know commissioner mar brought, one of the ideas do we have once a month the particular counter people can go to get educated, things like that. these are the types of accessible issues that these people are trying to solve. so, just throwing that out there. i don't know if there's an answer to that. >> i get questions on a daily basis from small business

people and architects about accessibility questions, and they are referred to me from staff when they're at plan check or even at technical services which is one other person who has the cat certification is. we have two people, one person is in technical services answer questions, and then myself who is in the disabled access division, being the secretary of the disabled access. and being the secretary of disabled access commission and answering complaints when we get complaints from the public about accessibility, that's one of the duties i have. so, generally the complaints that i receive are from public who actually want access. there's kind of two different tracks here. there's the councilwoman platectionv where people want access and then there's the lawsuit-driven complaints, which i don't hear much about,

unfortunately until the person comes in and is trying to obtain a permit. >> commissioner walker. >> i know it's a lot to ask of staff sometimes, but we do have a lot of the commissioners are helping with, like fairs when we have a table at the fairs and go out into the community. it may be an opportunity to actually do outreach on accessibility, especially when we're in those areas where there's a lot of retail of commercial uses that might be susceptible, the castro fair, fulton street fair. there's a lot of those type of activities where we could make sure we have the expertise at the booth because i think -- i would imagine that would be something that people would come up and really want to talk about. >> commissioner? >> this comment is probably directed to our director tom,

tom huey. what i think i'm hearing is that we are investing a lot of money and time to have inspectors certified as cats inspectors. and to me, i like to see something beyond what we normally do. i know training them with new knowledge, new ideas, we're looking for new ways of doing things. we're investing in these cast inspectors. we like to see something in the public. perhaps we can do a new outreach program, one thing i here is an outreach program. maybe it should be completely new steps, new program, new ideas, new ways of doing things instead of just accepting complaints and referring them to cats inspectors. that's what i think we're looking for. >> yeah, i agree with all the commissioners' comments. that's what my idea, always want to first start with the

brown bag lunch, invite all the small business come in. the second program, we may try and outreach in the neighborhood or whatever, and then try to get more handouts. also, when we have accessibility issues, we have unusual one, we also consult with technical service [speaker not understood]. they are all expertise on those areas. because no man knows everything. that's why we always consult each other, how do we solve the issue. the outreach program is definitely a top priority to do it. right now i try to get the information to get the brown bag lunch first to get more people into the building. >> and i don't know we have -- i was watching channel 26 and there was a small business presentation on accessibility there, but it was just the other night. i don't know how recent that

was. i know the small business commission is trying to look at that as well. it is is the director here for the small business? * maybe this is unfair, but there was some presentation down there. i didn't get a chance to watch it all. two small businesses on accessibility issues and so on. was that part of the small business commission? >> that was -- good morning, commissioners. regina dickens, director of office of small business. that was combined workshop with supervisor carmen chu and s.f. bar association which we recorded and is being aired cyclically on sfgov. >> was there anybody from the building department? >> at that particular presentation, no. >> with regard to that, i mean not to -- why wouldn't we have representation there from the dbi, ma'am? >> that was probably an

oversight in relationship to the coordination of the program with the sf bar association and not communicating all the different departments that may need to be there to represent and provide information. >> okay. just, you know, looking down the road here, we're all in this one together. we have a huge role to play and it's frustrating for us because we want to do all the right things. information is power, power is information to us. what is going on with the other departments so we're all on the same page with this, i don't know if any other commissioners want to weigh in on this, but it's very important. if we're to be successful and taken serious we genuinely want to resolve these issues that these small businesses are having out there, and not having somebody from the department there i think is a huge mistake because ultimately we're the ones dealing with this. >> commissioner mar? >> maybe we could just let the

director offer our services to other commissions, and even the supervisors. because i know that in different neighborhoods there's a lot of different merchants associations and i know sometimes the small business commission doesn't even reach all the little merchants in the different neighborhoods. and we have ethnic merchant associations, things like that. so, i think what president mccarthy said is the key, we want to do more education. we don't all have the resources. no department has all the resources so we can do it alone. i think maybe we could offer ourselves to do that. and also to work with some of the other supervisors. i know that supervisor chu has some legislation to deal with owners, not just the small business -- because a lot of small businesses are renters. so, they move into a place thinking they can just open up as-is and then they get a lawsuit because it's not totally accessible. and then they get into a battle with the owner who said, wait,

i just rented you the place as-is. i'm not doing nothing to the building. so, stuff like that. we just have to work more collectively so that especially the small independent businesses have a little bit of recourse that they can go to somebody and learn what they're getting into. >> and if i may add one thing. so, there is a senate bill 11 86 which they passed in the state or assembly and is currently on the governor's desk and i just received information today that he may veto it. but in it, it is -- if it does become into law, it will require that businesses pay an additional dollar, of which then -- in their business registration fee of which then that money would be split between the state and the local entities to help with outreach and education. so, which is an important component for both of us in terms of being able to have

materials and the means to be able to communicate to our businesses. so, just to make a note for that. >> just one question. is there an avenue to reach out to the property owners of these businesses? they're essentially a business as well. is there an avenue? >> there is the small property owners association which is one avenue to reach out to. i do know that from calls that i've received in our office from property owners that have gone through lawsuits, who are small property owners, there are usually one or two -- they may have one or two buildings, their family or their properties have been handed down. so, they, too, are not that -- they're not informed of what their obligations are. and just like the small business, are surprised. and have indicated if i had

known, then i would have done something. so, with supervisor david chu's legislation which is now in effect, it will require that the property owner does do a notification as to whether there are -- that it is up to the ten abt to make sure they understand about the accessibility of that property * . and we are working on a handout which i will be needing to consult with your department in finalizing that, that we're requiring the property owners to distribute at the time that they signed the lease to make sure that the tenant understands all the different potential issues that may arise , you know, with the property. and understanding the distinction between the california building code and the federal a-d-a, especially for businesses that are doing